[oclug]Linux too hard?
transop at sympatico.ca
Sat Nov 23 12:48:52 EST 2002
> > [gr] Brad, do you really think the casual user gives a sh*t
> > about"untrusted sources?"
> Some do, but most don't.. you're right. My comment above was just a
> crack at M$, after their announcement this week. It was just funny
> to hear them declare "context from Microsoft should be labeled as
> untrusted" as a solution to their recent problems :P
[gr] <LOL> Ya gotta love the way these guys will try to wiggle out
of a problem. This reminds me of a new program we have a Transpo.
We're now prohibited, by law, from letting people stand between us,
the bus drivers, and the front door on our right. It stands to reason,
because it's highly unsafe.
Transpo put out this nice little brochure lately which said something
like this(I'm not quoting verbatim): "Since we at OC Transpo are
always safety minded, we are now implementing a new program called
(whatever), and it is now prohibited to stand past the yellow line at
the front of the bus and block an operator's view of the right side of
The irony is that for the 25 years I've been there, we packed people
right down into the front steps, completely blocking our view to the
right. I an operator dared limit the load to less than this, he was
harassed by management. They couldn't fire him, but they put more and
more pressure on him, until he gave in and packed his bus right to the
front door. Safety minded indeed! Hypocritically minded is more like
> > [gr]
> > I think he wants something on which he can surf,
> > play games, e-mail, contact friends through chat rooms... yadda
> > yadda yadda; and he wants to be able to do it without the usual
> > hassles provided by Linux. Don't get me wrong, I love Linux, but
> > it's got a long way to go before it can truly compete in that
> > field.
> Actually, it doesn't have a long way to go for that. A default
> install by Redhat will do all of the above, right out of the box.
[gr] True enough, Linux has come a long way, but there is still a
dearth of certain apps.
> > [gr]
> > There are more apps and these apps are more diversified, for the
> > casual, and even business user, than Linux has produced; and
> > *that's* what counts for the causal user and even the business
> > user; and don't even get me started on drivers... OY!
> Yes, this is our main problem now. Software diversification. Let's
> look at something like the Amiga even. It has a far, far wider
> backdrop of software to use, and it has been effectively
> non-mainstream for over 10 years!
> However, let's stick on the topic here. Can Grandma use Linux?
> Sure. Again, once installed, it is just a matter of "Click on the
> Mozilla icon".
> "Click on the Open Office icon" and such.
[gr] Yes, and that was your main point, I realize that. Guess I was
just looking for a scrap, eh? ;-)
> If you think the average Grandma just buys a printer, a camera, and
> plugs it in and it "works" under windows.. well, from my experience
> with novice users, Window's isn't "plug and play". XP is old now,
> and drivers for products aren't built in. You get message like
> "This isn't a trusted driver!" and such to confuse users installing
> new hardware.
[gr] I don't know about the average grammy, but I know a few people,
computer illiterate thought they may be, who have done that in Windows
and gotten results from the get go. Admittedly, that doesn't always
For me, the bottom line with Linux is this: make it easier for the
non-Geeks out there and write more software and drivers. Of course, I
realize this takes time, and I readily admit that various distros have
come a very long way, say, since the days of Redhat 4.1, when I
started fiddling with Linux... that's when I started a love/hate
relationship with Linux. Now it's more a LOOOOVE/hate relationship.
Things are getting betterer and betterer. ;-)
> It's the average skilled user that has problems with Linux. They
> can navigate and work out many Windows problems themselves, but have
> a problem with Linux. These are the users that think that Windows
> is easier to use than Linux. The novice user finds both hard to
[gr] That's true. The biggest problem I had with Linux were all the
arcane commands and the fact that I had to know how to hack config
files and know where they were. If a novice learns Linux before
Windows, evidently, Windows will be strange to him; and if he earns
Linux on a distro like MDK or SuSe, his learning curve won't be as
high as if he learns from Debian, or Slackware.
> > [brad]
> > > Yeah, M$ knows what they are doing :P
> > [gr] I'm no fan of M$, that's for sure, but yes, they *do* know
> > what they're doing. They're providing software for millions, and
> > they're doing it successfully. I look forward to the day when
> > Linux can do the same; my digital camera woes being just one
> > example out of many.
> Sure, it's easy to rape, pillage and steal from the consumer,
> through dirty and evil that would end up with any individual or
> smaller corporation jailed.
[gr] <LOL> Got me there. As I said, I'm no fan of M$ and especially
that shark Gates.
"Half the lies they told me aren't true!"
~ Yogi Berra
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