[oclug] Easiest and most usefull language to learn?

[Greg Franks]

I am afraid you are confusing the library(ies) with the language.
Stock C++ does not come with lists and collections and all those other
good things.  STL (standard template library) adds lists, collections,
etc.  It was a way to implement much of the Smalltalk class library in
C++ (a good thing, BTW). Unfortunately, STL came along late in the
life of C++ and many of the earlier C++ compilers couldn't even
compile it (templates strike again...).  Smalltalk and Java shipped
these things almost right from the beginning.

Java has all these features you mention below.  As a bonus, you don't
have to worry about pointers either.  Further, java fixes dumb things
like

if ( a = b ) {
}

which, more cases than not, is NOT what was meant.
  ..greg

>>>>> "Ian" == Ian Wormsbecker <iwormsbe at nortelnetworks.com> writes:

    Ian> I have to disagree. I think C++ is a good programming
    Ian> language to learn first. You don't have to get into
    Ian> inheritance and templates, etc. until later on. Use c++ for
    Ian> the many good things it offers to learn first.  Things like
    Ian> strings as apposed to char *. List and vector instead of
    Ian> malloc/realloc. These things will allow you to write code
    Ian> without having to worry about implementation details of many
    Ian> things. When you want to know how to really program, go back
    Ian> and learn how List is implemented, or string, or inheritance,
    Ian> or templates.  In order to learn to program you need to first
    Ian> understand basic concepts. Things like looping, comparisons,
    Ian> flow control, functions. You can learn all these in C++
    Ian> without having to worry about getting seg faults because you
    Ian> didn't check if strncpy appended a NULL terminating character
    Ian> or not. I think this is one of the benefits of C++ for a new
    Ian> learner, you can use string and save yourself a whole lot of
    Ian> troubles. Once you understand the basics of programming
    Ian> (if/else, for, while, do while, switch, functions) then you
    Ian> can move on to more advanced things, be it in C, C++, Pascal,
    Ian> Smalltalk, Java.

    >> From my limited knowledge of Java, it seems even worse as a
    >> beginner
    Ian> language than C++. Everything is an object, which causes lots
    Ian> of question asking. Exceptions are more prevalent and doing
    Ian> simple things such as reading input have always seemed more
    Ian> difficult than a simple cin.

    Ian> If anyone is interested in a great book on C++ ( for a
    Ian> beginner or experienced programmer) I suggest Accelerate C++
    Ian> by Koenig and Moo. It is a very nice book.  For those of you
    Ian> wanting to buy books on programming languages, I suggest
    Ian> checking out www.accu.org. They have a book review section
    Ian> which is fabulous. have a look.


    Ian> btw, hopefully this message is not in html :)

    Ian> Ian
-- 
   __@               Greg Franks              <|       _~@ __O 
 _`\<,_         Ottawa, Ontario, Canada        |O\   -^\<;^\<, 
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          "Where do you want to go today?"   Outside.